crowdog66 | Possibly the stupidest idea I have ever heard

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open-source boob project

Possibly the stupidest idea I have ever heard

Behold, The Open-Source Boob Project. (Check the journal as a whole for later posts on the subject, including an attempt at clarification.)

The skinny: a proposition that at some sci fi conventions, men should be free to ask any woman if they can grab their breasts.

More commentary (and more links) here.

And here.

All I can say is this: in my present mood, any guy who walked up to me and said "Can I feel your boobs?" would instead be feeling the painful end of some Wen-Do self-defense techniques.

So what do y'all think? Is this actually a good idea, or do you agree that it's really not? I'm willing to listen to reasoned arguments.

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I am going to let Something*Positive do my talking for me.

That cartoon is priceless, even if she did leave out a word in the first word balloon.

**snorks and giggles!**

priceless!

Oh man, I've been happily following commentary on this all day. Because nothing makes me happier than feminist discourse on why this is so utterly skeevy when it moves beyond the realms of "friends who know each other very well".

Wait, I'm confused... do you mean that the feminists are entirely wrong in their reaction, or just in part of their reaction?

I consider myself a humanist, and find it very skeevy indeed. But then again, I have a personal history with having my breasts fondled without my consent, so I'm arguably biased.

(Not that anyone would probably want to fondle my breasts now. Wrong side of 40 and all that.)

No, I don't think people are wrong in finding it skeevy. I think that should be the default reaction to it. I just happen to enjoy reading people elaborating on all the myriad reasons why it's a skeevy idea when people try to take the idea outside of the context of "very good friends having fun".

Because, you know, it pleases me to see people being forthright and intelligent on why this sort of thing is a bad idea.

Edited 2008-04-23 00:46 (UTC)

Do not attempt to grope the mammary glands of a woman who wears steel-toed-boots as a part of her job.

Amen, sister. Amen.

Read my t-shirt...the one that says, "Bites when provoked." Is that clear?

*very evil, toothy grin*

(yeah, it's a stupid idea, no doubt thought up by an idiot...a decidedly male idiot, with more hair than wit and probably about 13.)

Apparently he's married. But still, yeah.

He's admitted that it was a stupid idea in the first place. At least he can be taught by experience, and I have to give him points for that.

Still, it's a bit too late for him to avoid being made a laughing stock of Teh Intarwebs.

What a terrific idea! In fact, in honor of this terrific idea, I'm going to start the Open Source Sausage-and-Eggs Project! I'll wear a green button to the right of my belt-buckle, and make my sausage and eggs available for everyone to touch! "Yes, you can touch. Are my sausage and eggs worthy of being touched?"

Sorry. I'm getting my sarcasm all over your nice clean journal. I'll stop now.

You know, I honestly have no problem with the idea that some women might not mind that kind of attention. More power to them, and so forth.

BUT.

I don't want to be in a convention environment where strangers might come up to me and ask to fondle my breasts. That seriously squicks me out (for personal reasons best not gone into, but suffice to say that my father was not a very nice man). I see no reason why I, or other women who would be similarly creeped out, should have to put up with that type of behavior.

So if women who are up for being fondled wear buttons that say "YES! Fondle my breasts!", I can live with that, although I'd question the good taste of the action itself. But for a guy to suggest it is just... ick.

Then is there an "open source crotch project", too?
This just seems like a creative way for men to be pigs.
And it IS reducing someone to a body. If they guy was interested in more than the boobs, he'd ask for a date like anyone else.

This is the bad idea to end all bad ideas. And if anyone tries it on me, he'll wind up needing major reconstructive surgery, to the point of the doctor at Mass. General suggesting he might want to consider gender reassignment in the event that the recon doesn't work. The least that will happen is, I'll say, "Sure, if I can squeeze your balls till you start crying for your grandma."

Sorry. Bad mood. Sick of piggish men, wish they'd all get scrotal cancer and die if they can't treat women like goddesses.

(( Clarification: I wish *only* the *piggish* men would get scrotal cancer and die, not the nice men who respect women.))

Wow. I went looking for the giggle, and ended up getting triggered all over the place.

That's deplorable. The lofty arguments and the ever-so-fucking-altruistic idea of bestowing a declaration of worthiness upon women's breasts. Hate.

Er... I'm sorry for the swearing in your journal. I don't usually; I just have some personal triggers about men assuming women's bodies are public property in public spaces. Sorry.

Heh. Don't worry about the swearing. I do it myself.

Yeah, the whole thing's pretty sad, isn't it? Sorry it triggered you.

Well, I'm sure the rage was as good as a workout. : )

Actually, it just reminds me that I love having a friendslist where I know if I run into something like this, it'll be in the context of sane people raising their eyebrows.

If only we could meet face to face so that I could tell you you're awesome by invading your personal space.

You would think that people attending a con had better things to do like celebrate the con.

I think he is some piggish jerk longing for some attention. I did see his picture in his icon *cough/gag*

I've been reading

theferrett for a long time, and have exchanged email with him off of LJ about Magic: the Gathering. (It's a collectible card game that I play, and he's an expert at it.)

So my perspective on this is colored by the fact that I feel like I know him, I know he's a neat guy, I know his wife, etc. I also know that he writes quickly and just about never proofreads. And somewhat unaware of the extent of male privilege, and a little clueless, but actually much less so than most geeky men I know.

So when I first read his post, I had a very different reaction. When the internet comment-storm broke, I mostly hoped he'd learn from this that he really should proofread. There was one sentence in the original post that sorely needed better punctuation, since the entire meaning changed depending on where you inserted a comma. And a couple of places where he was not clear at all about what he was saying.

For example, that the people suggesting that it would be great if they could just ask to touch other women's breasts were women, straight women. And that the skinny was the proposition that it should be OK to ask if you could touch someone else's body. To do away with some of the shame and awkwardness that's attached to physical touch.

The "Yes you may" buttons were meant to say "Yes you may ask" -- apparently some people who wore them pretty consistently answered No, and felt that was empowering -- and the "No you may not" buttons were for people who didn't want to play.

I use the word "people" rather than "women" deliberately, because the people who came up with the original idea were women. The first people to ask others if they might touch their breasts were women, straight women, and the person who invented and handed out the buttons was a woman. All women who saw this as a consciousness-raising, sex-positive, feminist statement.

theferrett was just along for the ride. I think he's discovered how bumpy the ride can be, though.

I appreciate the extra "behind the scenes" information by someone who knows him from other situations. It puts a more human face on someone who, truth be told, I only knew from this kerfuffle.

Still... I just think the whole idea is a bad one, no matter who came up with it. It's unfortunate for

theferrett that he decided to be the point man for it, as he's certainly discovered.

Yep. I agree to both your points.

I think that by looking

theferrett's take of the idea, we can see how very different basic worldview assumptions can be, even when we're talking about well-meaning, generally feminist people.

I am a woman whose breasts are no more sensitive than any other normally-covered part of the body (nipples are a different matter, I mean the "body" of the breast). I beastfed both my children, including in public, and I dealt with plenty of people who thought it was shameful to let any part of my breasts be seen, even when they were doing what they're there for.

So to me treating women's breasts differently from men's seems like a mass artificial fetishization. It requires me to wear a shirt when I'm working in my yard on a hot day, even though my husband may remove his shirt. It makes men I dated think that breasts were an especially erotic zone, even though I would have gotten more physical pleasure out of a good back rub than breast fondling.

I would LOVE it if breasts were defetishized, if "may I touch your breasts" was no more shameful or awkward than "may I rub your back" or "may I braid your hair" -- questions that are fairly common between acquaintances at cons.

But, here's the thing:

theferrett didn't seem to lose his fetishization of the breast. I can't say it was reinforced; it seems to have shifted somewhat for him; however, the fetish is still there.

Meh, to each his own. It's just not going to work that way, I think.

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